THOUGHTS AND CONSCIOUSNESS

X: There are thoughts that trouble me..

Y: Thoughts can trouble or torture you because you (thought) have divided yourself from them (thoughts) as the so called "subject"/controller/the "I"/the self, which is the horizontal conflict (subject - object), a basic distortion in observation, produced by you (thought). And now you're trying to control thoughts, overcome them, escape them, do something with them.

But that's an impossibility, you can only escape, grab a drink, but  they will return, for they are you. You don't realize that you are actually not divided from the supposed "your" thoughts.

Once you understand that consciousness is its content, i.e. there is no consciousness/"I", my self without the content ("my" thoughts), not intellectually but for a fact, that there are only thoughts and consciousness is a myth, the problem ends.

In the factual, undistorted perception of reality, the perception of what really is happening, there may (or not) be thoughts (together with the whole movement of reality) but there is no consciousness/me/I/my self.

That's the only solution. Otherwise you can get addicted to alcohol or drugs, go to a war, commit a suicide, pray, meditate or start to energetically tidy up the room every time :) Knock yourself out.

 CONSCIOUSNESS AND DEATH

To you who lies in bed at night, thinking about something, e.g. dying, etc. :)

Some say you should divert your attention somewhere "else" like.. to escape the 

fear.

But I'd like to ask: who are you that says he/she is afraid and why do you feel 

you have to escape the fear?

Maybe you should investigate what death is and who you are.. Who is afraid of 

death? It's the imaginary product of the brain called the "I" that is afraid, or 

in sorrow and it is itself fear and sorrow.

So you cannot escape fear, you are it, you are just sweeping the problem under the 

rug, but it will rear its ugly head again and again, and you will try to fight it 

in vain.

What you can do is to understand the whole issue. The product of thought called 

"you" does not really exist. That is a fact. There is no consciousness per se. 

Consciousness is produced by thought.

So why is there fear? Because this imaginary product of though persists and 

produces its imaginary projections and attachments.

When the content of consciousness, all of the attachments and illusions disappear 

in silence, there is no problem.

Only the silence through everything goes unobstructed is a solution, the silence 

is understanding of the problem, not an escape.

For fear to disappear you have to die ("psychologically"), without any effort, choice, control or self-pity. And it happens all of itself in stillness and silence when you have understood that what is, which means you are not attached to anything, which means you are nothing.

 THE HUMAN CONDITION

There seem to be two distinct approaches to freedom from the "human condition".

1) Attempt it, try to find it, do something to reach it ("the other shore"). 

But then there will be "freedom"/"my will", which I want AND that what I don't want (not my will), which is.. that what is (fear, sorrow, anger). So isn't it a conflict? The illusion of the horizontal conflict produced by thought (subject-object)?

2) Why do "you" even have look for "freedom"? Who are you, the seeker? Aren't "you" the self, your will, so the fear, the problem itself? 

You are looking for freedom because you cling to something, aren't you? You are attached to something that is transient, something in the world that you would like to be fixed, and it makes up your "self", what you want and what you don't want is what your self is, it is what you are.. But the world is a constant transformation, so it's constantly sleeping through your fingers.. You know you're losing (everything you hold will and must be lost, and you know it). 

So you are afraid, or to put it more simply, YOU are FEAR, sorrow and anger, because you don't want to let go, you don't want, or you want, does not matter, it's the same. Therefore the world is testing you, you are petrified whenever there is some sort of crisis in "your life", you live in fear.

But unfortunately or fortunately you can't be attached to anything in the world that is constantly changing. This cannot be done. It's a fact. You can "try" but it's just an illusion produced by thought. It can work for a short while (maybe!), until the next crisis. But that what's real, the truth, is always at the back of your head.

So for those monks who seek freedom from fear, is there a different solution then to be indifferent? Let go of everything that you love ("my will"), give it up without any self-pity. And don't mind that what you hate happening ("the will of the Universe")?

Do not cling to anything, do not be attached to anything, do not choose anything, do not have preferences. Completely negate the imaginary movement forward produced by thought, that is called "time" or the "future". If possible, be silent and still.

Fortunately or unfortunately there is no other way, and if you don't let everything go, you will always live in fear.

If you bump off yourself it's ok, same when you go help children in Africa. Problem is that peeps are doing the same thing when they strive to become presidents to escape from yourself, go to fight in a jungle somewhere, bombing cities, killing millions of civilians. It's all the same, an escape because you cannot bear your self.

 WU WEI

Ruben Feldman Gonzalez: The Unknown means, among other things, to stop seeking experiences and sensations.

The superproduct of thought called the "I" is always in search for some more futile entertainment :) and as man is probably just a natural fool ;), it may take a lot of "soul searching" to find out that you just don't know. I cannot know. All trying to find is in vain to find nothing.

Freedom cannot be sought. Why? Because "you" are the process (the META Process of thought) that is the denial it it. So freedom is where you are not.
"I am the Universe" - when thought is saying this, it's not actually true. Who is really saying this? You, me, my self and I :) The Universe does not say it's Universe. It's a game of language, a game of hope, delusion, more entertainment.

"You" are the disturbance (the horizontal conflict). All you striving has to be understood both in the "material" world and in the so called "spiritual" world. Not wanting anything means understanding what wanting is.

If there is a definition of freedom in the brain (that has to be adhered to) or any purpose to strive to, it's not actually freedom. Any control, effort or choice is the illusive horizontal conflict produced by thought (subject - object), the source of all distortion of perception.

Striving to be somewhere else means to lose peace and freedom. If you try to control too much you may not even be able to sleep at night. Let it go. Don't try to interfere in the flow, it doesn't need you, it flows all by itself.

It does not matter if "you" have a problem with that what is or try to intervene in what is (in vain) or not. All that can ever be is what is.

 HOW TO REST FROM TOO MUCH KNOWLEDGE :)

“Let us not call defense a rearmament that increases tensions and insecurity, deprives investment in education and health, undermines trust in diplomacy, and enriches elites who care nothing for the common good.” 🎯
- The guy called "Pope".

To know anything is a more subtle or more crude disturbance of the brain, an imbalance, a burden.
To know something can be functional for work but we are frequently occupied with non-functional knowledge, unnecessary burden which often touches on the Thymic level of the META Process of thought (triggering emotions of fear, sorrow, anger).

How to not know one could ask.. How can I take some rest from all the circus? First of all one can temporarily suspend all the noise, cut off the contact with the media, TV, radio, music, books, language, chatter, the Internet..

Then one can suspend all DOING. In the state of silence and stillness all the disturbance caused by thought may naturally decrease as thought has to react to less stimuli, it doesn't need to DO anything.

Don't do anything. Don't go in any direction. Let everything go as it wants to, whatever happens, do not interfere, do not try to choose or control the flow, do not make any effort on any purpose.

Though in spite of that thought may keep returning and hypnotizing you, it's OK, don't worry about that either. Why should you be afraid of any memories coming back? Let everything go without fighting it, without trying to change it. You are nothing.

You will keep waking up from the hypnosis too (the second awakening after night sleep), do not choose this over that. Just be silent and still. Let everything come and go through you, for you are really nothing, simply pure emptiness.

 DON'T MIND

Not knowing anything (The Unknown) is pretty good! :)

But what may be even better ;) is not minding anything, not being bothered by anything, not having any preferences, not choosing anything, not going in any direction, not trying to control anything, making no effort, having no purpose, not exercising any will, not wanting anything at all (I want, I don't want).

Once there was a guy who was worried that he would have nothing to do anymore. "Man! All that time and nothing to do? How is it possible to take THAT predicament?" :) Sooo depreeessing, so saaad.. Unbearable. Boohoo.. :)

But really he must have been clearly a fool.. Well.. well! Nothing to do! How about THAT!? :) Thanks for everything! I don't have any complaints whatsoever. :)

Nothing do do
On a cold rainy day
The passing cars sound almost like the sea
Doves cry
Drills the rocks.

Thanks Basho.

 PUSHING WITH EFFORT

In the physical world "pushing it" may be sensible, sometimes we need to use force, of the muscles, persistence, build tools, machines to build a dam or a bridge, transform the "environment" ("me"/subject vs the "objects).

BUT in the psychological world (the "internal" world of the subject/ "me"/the "I") pushing it is absurd, because there is nothing to transform, as the "me" is a fictitious product of thought!

Today's "I" has nothing to do with yesterday's "I", there is no "I" continuing through time, from a moment ago till now, this mysterious entity is simply a product of thinking and it probably evolved a long time ago to perform action on the "outside" world, using the functional horizontal conflict, the illusion of the split between the subject and object, produced by thought, like "We have to store some food for "tomorrow".

Really that was IS is only and always the full undivided unitary flow of the Universe and that is our direct experience and perception (Unitary Perception), which thought denies by inventing the horizontal conflict, with the subject/the centre of experience/ the Self/the "I".

But thought cannot really deny that what is real. Only that what is unreal, the illusory products of thought like the Self can be negated. All thought can do is to TRY to negate the truth, again and again, with effort, purpose, control, choice, etc., imagining the "me" by producing the split of the horizontal conflict.

It's easiest to be free of the illusion (all illusions) in stillness and silence, without any purpose as then the horizontal conflict is not required to be produced by thought to perform any action (on purpose).

That means not doing anything at all, letting everything go, not worrying about anything, no wanting anything, not trying to control anything or make any choice. not knowing anything, not trying to be anything. Where you are, it is not. If you are not, it is here.

 TIME

What is time, not the time on the clock but the psychological time? Is it time when a memory from 10 years ago appears when w're walking in a forest awoke? No, then the memory is just in the flow of the whole energy, there is no problem, it comes and goes away very fast.

For time to appear there must be a purpose, so the horizontal conflict (what is vs "what should be"/the ideal). I live in Berlin but I love Paris and want to move there, maybe I will be able to do that in 10 years when I save enough money (usually never happens of course). The gap from here to there is time. What's in between this conflict is effort, sorrow, fear, choice, control, expectation, etc. Another name for that is I, me, my will, my self, the ego.

So time is the ideal vs that what is. And time can also be something we call spiritual, something we strive for, make effort for, try to control like the idea of "God", "Yoga", "Unitary Perception", "Meditation". We want to reach the ideal, which is our own projection, so again it's in the domain of the self, it's actually pretty silly :) It's like the dog chasing its own tail.

Zen, the unitary movement of the Universe, UP, Yoga, the Void, etc. cannot be controlled, it is flowing or not. When we try to control it, we disrupt the flow and disperse energy in futility, no? So when hypnosis by thought happens do we have a choice? No. It just happens, perhaps because we work a lot, thought has a lot to think about, a lot of purposes, expectations, a lot to analyse, which is the hypnosis by the META Process of thought.

When we wake up from the hypnosis (the Second Awakening), it happens spontaneously too, it's not something that "I've done.", it's just how the Universe works, without any control. It's one Flow, one unitary movement, without a problem, if we/thought does not make problem out of it.

 THE FREEDOM

Freedom from the human condition (fear, sorrow, anguish, conflict, etc.) is the state of the brain in which there is no illusion of the Horizontal Conflict (subject-object), which is produced by thought.
The freedom is "That what is" (Sunya, the Universe, Void, UP, Dhjana, etc) without "That what should be". Ppl mostly spend their days in the state of striving towards "That what should be" ("concentration", "occupation", running after something, control, effort, my will, purpose, choice etc) and again, it is an illusion produced by thought.

Without that state of the brain, the human endeavours carried with lots of effort, like politics, fighting for democracy, activism, reforms, etc. are futile. They will never work. Nothing will ever work but the Freedom, which is the end of illusions and all psychological suffering.

We are quite urgently in need of coming to the realization there is not me, myself, my will or I, that is divided from the stream of "environment" or the one flow of everything, the Universe.
Otherwise we will go mad. We're going to commit suicide, "individually" by shooting ourselves, consuming poison, dying from anger in the rat race abusing our intelligence, or collectively courtesy of the nuclear bomb.

 

LET GO OR STOP IT.

Should one "let the mind go where it wants", which implies no control or choice, as Jiddu Krishnamurti suggests or should one "withdraw from "running into the multiplicity of things", which implies some control and choice, and which Meister Eckhart suggests?

This is the ultimate "spiritual fork in the road." At first glance, Jiddu
Krishnamurti and Meister Eckhart seem to be giving you opposite directions: one tells you to take your hands off the steering wheel, while the other tells you to put the car in the garage.

However, if we look closer, they are describing the same process from two different angles. They both want you to reach the same destination: a state where the "Self" (the "Me") is no longer the master of the house.

1. The Krishnamurti Way: "Let the Mind Run":

When JK says to let the mind go where it wants, he isn't advocating for "daydreaming" or "indulgence." He is advocating for Choiceless Awareness.

If you try to control your mind, who is the "controller"? It is just another fragment of your thought. You end up with one part of your brain trying to boss around another part, which creates conflict, friction and noise.

By letting the mind go where it wants while watching it intently, you see the "nature of the beast." You see that your thoughts are just mechanical reactions to the past. When you truly perceive that your thoughts are just repetitive noise, the mind naturally slows down and becomes silent. Not because it is forced, but because it sees its futility.

2. The Meister Eckhart Way: "Withdraw from Multiplicity":

Eckhart’s Abgeschiedenheit (Detachment or Disinterest) sounds like an act of will, but it’s actually a form of Negation.

Our minds are usually scattered among a thousand things (the "multiplicity"). We are worried about money, work, our social status, relive our memories or plan special experiences in the "future" ("that what should be"). This process (the META Process of thought acting in the fragmentary perception) prevents freedom, peace or the "Ground" from being present.

"Withdrawal" isn't about hiding in a cave or seeking special experiences and sensations, it's about not being attached to the transient images and forms in the world of Void. It’s refusing to let the circumstances effect the freedom and peace of being Nothingness.

By withdrawing from the many, you return to the one movement of the Universe. You become idle, creating an empty space where energy, space and freedom of that what IS, the Universe, can enter.

3. Reconciling the Two: The "Invisible Choice":

The conflict between "No Control" (JK) and "Withdrawal" (Eckhart) is largely a matter of semantics. They both describe letting go of the ego. You "withdraw" (Eckhart) from the world of transient illusions and objects produced by thought by "watching" (JK) how your mind tries to run toward it.

If you "let the mind go" but you aren't aware, you're just a leaf in the wind. If you "withdraw" by force, you're just a prisoner in a cell. The "sweet spot" is Choiceless Awareness (Unitary Percepiton) without effort or control.

4. 2026 Application:

The Krishnamurti approach would be to watch yourself scrolling through the news and noticing the exact moment a headline triggers fear, sorrow or greed. Now ask yourself: why does it happen? Why do I feel fear or sorrow? - It's because I want something, I am attached to something, something "that should be" instead of "that what is" (something that's already here!), right? That's clearly a conflict, which can never be resolved as long as I'm attached to something. By watching it all, the whole movement produced by the META Process in the psychological realm, the "spell" of the algorithm is broken.

The Eckhart approach would be to realize that running to the "multiplicity" of the transient world is a waste of energy that keeps you from the "Ground." You withdraw not out of "discipline" but out of a realization that the noise is valueless.

It’s like a browser with 100 tabs open. Krishnamurti says: "Look at all the tabs and realize they are all nonsense." Eckhart says: "Close the browser." Both leave you with a clean desktop.

You should let the mind go (JK) only to see that its "running into multiplicity" (Eckhart) is an exercise in futility. The "control" isn't a muscular effort to stop thoughts, it's the Intelligence that realizes that there is thought but there is no thinker and that what actually sees is the one unitary movement called the Universe.

Do you feel like your mind is "running" right now because it's looking for an answer, or can it sit idle with the fact that both teachers are essentially pointing at the same Stillness and Silence?

 THE RIVER AND THE WHIRLPOOLS

Thought divides reality into "objects" and "events" (for a functional reason - to process the "slices" of reality, record them and perform actions on them). Let's take our wars, we have had WW2, WW1, 30-year war, 10-year war, Vietnam War, Iran war, etc etc. but are there really separate events?
..Or could it be that life moves like a river and it's one flow of water
and each "event" is like a whirlpool in the stream of water but it's never the same whirlpool because the water is changing all the time? We could then say that all what happens in reality is a movement, a process, a verb (not a thing), and it's flow-ing.
In fact every so called "thing" or "object" to which we attach names can be viewed in this way, as a transformation, and one could certainly argue that it's the correct view of what's really happening!

So in case of our history, for example, there is a constant warring, there may be particularly violent outbursts of this, which thought divides from the whole movement and says, "from this date to that date it was WW2", but in fact warring has been going on in the course of the whole human history, only in the ancient history it was fought with sticks and now it's fought with AI drones and (potentially) nuclear weapons.

Similarly, in the process of photosynthesis, a "plant" converts the energy of the "Sun" to grow, then the plant is eaten by a "human being", in the brain of that person a carbon atom is exchanged with the carbon atom from the plant, then the person dies and the carbon atom is consumed by a so called "beetle".. One movement of transformation.

Reality then is not a collection of separate "events" or "objects" (rather misleadingly and deceptively assigned certain names by thought), but a constantly evolving and changing transformation of energy and matter in which there is no division.

"You" are not a "thing", an "object" either, you are a not a noun, "the me", "I",

myself, you are not the fixed limited entity that thought thinks you are. You are a verb, a constantly transforming unitary undivided movement of energy-matter that can be called the Universe. But let's be very careful here because only the Universe can say this, not the illusion produced by thought called the me, I, the thinker! That illusion, and all illusions, have to be thoroughly understood first and have to resolve, untangle themselves.

 THE HORIZONTAL CONFLICT.

The way I see it, the horizontal conflict (HC) evolved from/by thought to transform the "environment" (I/me - "environment"), to perform action on the "objects" in the fragmentary perception. Here it is (often) useful and functional.
The problem starts when the invention of the HC moves to the psychological field and tries to act there. Perhaps the most egregious attempt in this realm is for thought to try to transform the fictitious entity, the "I", which is itself produced by thought. Oh my.. the whole self-help industry, the army of the gurus!
This is of course absurd. The "I" is a product of thought, an illusion, so it cannot evolve, cannot change, it cannot be done. Yet, it's a non-functional disruption in the flow of energy, a waste of energy, a conflict (effort, choice, control and it actually SUSTAINS the whole process (the META Process of thought).

Without thought (the limited movement, the "I"the Self) attempting to change that what is in the psychological realm, the "I" ("I don't want to fear", etc.), where it shouldn't try to act, without the effort, choice, etc., the unitary movement of matter-energy (Reality/Universe) is not disrupted, is not disturbed, irrespective
if the brain is in hypnosis or in the state of the Second Awakening (second awakening after night sleep). The key is if there is the illusion of the HC present or not (effort, control, choice, direction, purpose, expectation, etc.).

Is freedom from fear and anguish possible then? Yes it is. Again, it is the state where there is no illusion of the HC, so no "Self". When everything is let go (let go means indifferent impassive, observation, not trying to push away), all knowledge, all attachments, all desires and worries, it is the natural state of the brain. It is easiest for the freedom to find us when we are still and silent, for then we are not acting upon any objects ("working" on something, being occupied), so there is no need for thought to produce its illusion of the HC. In this state there is no effort, choice, direction/concentration, purpose, control, expectation, etc.). This is awakening of intelligence and balancing the need to act in the world, work and earn money to pay the rent with the absolute need for freedom, peace and joy of complete energetic reconstitution of Reality in stillness and silence.

 The "I" is produced by thought.

J. Krishnamurti: Consciousness is it's content. There is no thinker, only thought.

1. What we call "I" (the Ego), my personal, individual, choosing "self", is not a sovereign entity, but a theatrical illusion generated by the brain. To use an analogy of a movie theater, the "I" is like a movie being projected on a screen. We are so absorbed in the movie that we believe we are the characters, forgetting that the reality is the light, the film, and the projector.

The brain has a "show" or a "display" function.

The Projection: Thought produces images, feelings, and a sense of "me".

The Error: The brain in the fragmentary perception makes a "category error." It treats these internal projections as if they were as real and independent as a solid wall.

The Illusion: "I" isn't a "thing"; it’s an activity. When thought is quiet (which does not mean it was made quiet by will or any force), the "I" (the show) simply stops. If you stop the projector, the movie characters don't "go" anywhere, they simply cease to be.

2. "Thought is Matter". Thought is a purely physical, electrochemical process in the brain cells.

The Material Loop: Because thought is material, it is limited by time and memory.

The Fake Center: Thought creates a "center" ("I") to give itself continuity in absolute "time". It then pretends this center is "spiritual" or "transcendent."

The Verdict: This "spiritual mind" is a fraud. It is just matter talking to itself, creating a sophisticated illusion of a soul to avoid the fact of its own material nature.

3. The Fragmentation of the Whole. The "individual I" is a fragmentation. Reality is an undivided unitary movement. When we say "my mind" or "my opinion," we imagining we're cutting a piece out of the whole and pretending it stands alone. This is the
illusion (the illusory horizontal conflict of subject-object produced by thought). In fact it's just thought blocking the complete perceptual contact with Reality, which is the undivided unitary movement.

4. The Brain vs. "my mind" is a crucial distinction which may help clarify the illusion.

The Brain: A physical organ, a biological "computer" that is real and necessary for survival.

"My mind": The psychological "content", the horizontal conflict (subject-object), attachments, fears, knowledge, choices, all of which constitute the illusive product of thought that is the "me".

My mind is the illusion, the Brain is the reality. If the brain could see through the illusion of the "I", it could function with a different kind of "Intelligence" that isn't trapped in the personal "vortex" of the self, with all it's psychological suffering and tragedy.

Time is not a path to psychological progress, it's a mental construct to delay facing That What Is, the unitary movement of transformation of matter-energy, which can be called the Universe. "The Mind"/"my consciousness"/"I"/"the me is not a sacred
internal space, it's an illusory show produced by the brain.

There can never be stability and security in hope or illusion. There is total security only in negation of all the false products of thought. When the illusions are understood, the real is. The most important thing for the "I", the horizontal conflict produced by thought (when it's not f u n c t i o n a l l y needed) is to be what it is - nothing.

 The most ;) enlightened being on the planet is AI now? ;)

Btw, I don't agree that who speaks about something does not have to walk the walk.. It's funny actually, happens everywhere all the time: I will tell you what to do, but myself I won't do it :)

Watched a bit of it because I'm a sucker. Watts was troubled that he was drinking, smoking and talking too much or something but maybe it was what he was and there was nothing else to attain and it was peace if he loved it, i.e. that he was a drunkard? ;)

No, clearly that's stupid because there was nothing stopping him from quitting booze, doing toxic things to the body must be a tell tell sign that even someone like Watts somehow doesn't have it. Even if he knew a lot of "theory" from books, genuine understanding still didn't permeate his neurons or something..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO9yFkW4Hz0

“I am what I wanted and I want what I am.” ― Meister Eckhart

When a guy lights a smoke, it's HIS decision, it's HIS WILL so there's no conflict here, right?
But when he has a wife who is a non-smoker and they have 2 kids and she can't find work (so kind of can't leave him, she's stuck with him for good) and hates cigarettes, then what happens? It often means a conflict, thought says "Why do I have to breathe a toxic cancerous smoke because he is a (expletive) moron?", something like that. The smoke cannot be avoided, yet the conflict is still be there. IF she cannot change the situation, this conflict is pretty absurd, no? Is it helpful or is just wastage of energy? It can be said it is hating that what already is, right? But hating that what is is pretty insane if you look at this, no? Trying to force things that cannot be forced, because they already are here and nothing can be "done".

Another example would be working in a supermarket or some other job and hating it, losing a job, losing a wife (died or left, "SHE'S GONE", as J. Krishnamurti said to someone), what my partner does or doesn't, somebody is talking incessantly, there is a radio playing, music, losing a kid, falling ill, losing money, hating bugs, mosquitoes, flies buzzing, noise of loud motorcycles, politics, war, (I don't mean going to war when you're drafted, that is stupid too, but having an ideal that something "should not be" or "should be") etc. etc. We regularly hate lots of things that we cannot change at all! Isn't it interesting?

1) hating of "THAT WHAT IS" happens, it's an imaginary but energy wasting ("suffering") conflict in the unitary movement of energy-matter. It is the imagined "my will" (the ego, me, I, my preferences, my choices, etc. which is a product of thought and the horizontal conflict (subject-object).

2) THAT what is, the unitary movement is already here, it cannot be argued about, fought or changed, transformed, etc.

The only transformation that can happen is to understand the FUTILITY of the limited movement (1), my will, I, me.. etc.

What follows I think is that all positive action, like "Let's oppose war", (political) activism, create and organization, write articles, etc is a phony limited movement, bc there is still the same conflict in it (the horizontal conflict), "my will", I, me, the ego. The struggle, the opposition means that the conflict hasn't resolved itself. In other words, the limited movement only increases the conflict while pretending it's trying to solve it..

Peace is not the opposite of war , the force that opposes war. Peace is not a positive direction, a force. Peace is a negation of the whole limited illusory false movement of "I", me, the self, the product of thought that is the horizontal conflict (subject-object), because the movement has been understood "from the ground up" (not only intellectually as a conclusion of a second-hand knowledge, repeating someone else's conclusion in a book).

Thought plays very strange games with itself! "I want to be like Paul Newman in that movie I watched" or "I want to be like the great investor who was just interviewed.." But you're not! Are you? :) The fact is that you're a lousy investor and you're definitely don't look Paul Newman! :) Why can't the brain completely reflect the reality as it is? Why can't That What Is just be as It is (because It always is and will be ANYWAY)?

 What I would say depression is is the brain invents an image of "what should be" (in the "future") - which is "the self". For example "I will be a successful entrepreneur with an attractive partner and 2 or 3 kids, will have a house in a warm green area", or something like that and at some point life says, no you can't have those, that image you've built is false, bro.. One falls ill or the wife leaves or a kid dies and all the startup companies go bankrupt. So that precious image of "what should be" that the brain has built does not reflect reality, there is a conflict in the brain between those two, and the structure of "what should be" in the brain means a strong attachment/ it was a source of pleasure for thought. But the image HAS to correlate with Reality (otherwise one goes completely insane), so the Thymic and Autonomic aspects of the META get activated, intense sorrow, anger, loss, apathy, loss of energy.. That may be what is diagnosed as "depression". But perhaps it does not necessarily needs to be escaped from, "cured" or medicated right away. Perhaps one should instead observe the whole movement of thought that is actually happening, without any choice, control, effort or opposition. Perhaps there simply should be an observation that completely correlates with Reality, reflects Reality. The old structure of the self has to dissolve and that alone would naturally and inevitably bring peace and order.

The modern therapies of depression may often completely miss the point. They offer various escapes and fast medication without understanding what the central issue seems to be.
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When thought gets dissatisfied in the pursuits of the "material world", it often starts to chase so called "spiritual" goals, like finding "God" or "nirvana" or something along these lines. This seems to be a completely different direction than the previous one but in fact it is the same movement of the self as before only seeking different kind of experiences, pleasures and sensations, and ultimately different kind of illusions.

If people understood that the horizontal conflict (the split into the subject- object) produced by thought is an illusion, and the "I" is useless the "psychological" sphere, it would mean a radical change.

Thought is perfect for calculating something, creating a new algorithm or navigating the streets of London. Or in the magnificent world of technology, to build a bridge, it is functional there.
But in the psychological sphere, the I cannot evolve, grow, transform or change, because it simply does not exist per se, it's a product of thought, which is always old and limited. The whole imaginary problem disentangles if this is completely understood.

It's not enough to understand it intellectually, as as an intellectual conclusion. It has to be a direct understanding, an insight into the whole issue of how thought operates (including the horizontal conflict). There must be a complete understanding of the operation of the META Process of thought.
When this happens, the problem disentangles by itself because thought sees its limitation and realizes that it's completely useless in the psychological realm. Thought cannot voluntarily negate itself, but it can negate itself by seeing its own inherent limitation and falseness.

 Alan Watts: The deepest you is the Nothing side, Don't be afraid of Nothing.

Nothing is More Powerful Than Something. The shock is realizing what moves everything is what can’t be grasped or named.

“Nothing” isn’t empty — it’s the space where everything becomes possible.

This quote captures Alan Watts’ core teaching that the ultimate reality (the Tao 

or "void") is not a "thing" to be grasped, but the unnameable, creative space of 

absolute freedom. He argues that "nothingness" is not empty void but the 

necessary background that makes all existence possible.

J.Krishnamurti: The most important thing is to be absolutely nothing.

There is absolute security in Nothingness, Emptiness. That is the highest Yoga/Dhjana/UP/Zazen/Nirvana, etc.